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Tech Gadgets said in December 8th, 2006 at 3:04 pm

Army proposes cutbacks, Land Warrior not spared

Filed under: Misc. Gadgets , Wearables Just a few weeks after the Army announced that the first battalion

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Mark Wells said in December 8th, 2006 at 7:17 pm

The assertion that medicine will suffer because of these cuts is hilarious at best, maliciously ignorant at worst. Here’s an idea: take the money that would have been spent on killing machines and fund medicine directly instead. Replace the trickle with a torrent of medical research funds.

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Mark Wells said in December 8th, 2006 at 7:19 pm

I just returned to the top of the page and discovered that you are a doctor.
Do you seriously believe the best way to fund medical technology is by funding better killing machines? My god man.

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Steven F. Palter, MD said in December 8th, 2006 at 9:48 pm

You are drawing conclusions. I am not saying this is the only nor best way to fund medical research. However, issues like this are presented very one sided- the money goes to the military only. This is not true. It is an clear fact that military R&D pushes medical technology many years ahead. Medical development does not have the budget to create the first surgical robot. The military did whenthey were working onremote battlefield surgery and now it’s revolutionizing surgery. Medicine did not have the technology to develop HMD’s for surgery - the air force did and now we use them. Even the lasers we use ever day. It is for the reader to decide the value judgement of where the money should go. Medicine R&D budgets pale compared to the military (as many think is societal misguidance). My prime point here is that in the new medical technology world the inspiration and technology for my devices comes from the military constantly. If they get the billions then I am happy to take their technology when it is declassified. The public needs to know military technology has other uses as well.

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Lessthan said in December 9th, 2006 at 6:27 am

Mark,
All this post seems to say is that the military was developing tech that would work on both the hurting and the healing sides of the coin and what a disappointment the author felt, as a fixer of people, not to have these tools available for helping people.
Also, I am in the military and I sense that you aren’t happy with us. We have been misused on occasion, but the military’s primary purpose is to make sure our counterparts across the world don’t come to your house. As long as there is one person in the world who desires power over others, you will need me and people like me.

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[…] If you want to read all the details of the Land Warrior System and its potential medical uses read here   « Army Axing High-Tech Soldier of Tomorrow- MedTech Losses Predicted |   […]

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Spade78 said in December 9th, 2006 at 3:55 pm

I work for a small medical tech startup that is developing a non-invasive vital-sign monitoring device to market based on UWB tech developed at Lawrence Livermore in the 80’s. I joined three years ago, fresh out of college. My first two years I bore witness to our efforts to bring in some funding through partnerships/licensing of our device with private-sector medical-device manufacturers and the furthest we ever got through two and a half years of effort was the response: “Hmmm, looks promising, but could you give me more data?” The first couple of months of this was understandable but after two years, I got a little jaded about the vaunted risk-taking capabilities of the private-sector… at least the big corporations. Our big break (at the moment) finally came with a SBIR (Small Business Innovation in Research) grant from the Army because they were looking for technology to give their medics better vital-sign monitoring capablilties in the field. The Army liked the results of that grant enough to give us more money to continue which will allow us to build a 2nd-gen prototype and fund another study.
Sure the military is a gigantic bueacracy with a main focus on guns and bombs (kind of hard to avoid that when its the nature of military conflict) but there is good tech that gets developed that would otherwise be passed up by the private-sector as “too risky”.

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Grumpy said in December 10th, 2006 at 2:35 am

Doc, as I read your article, in my mind’s eye, I coming up to you and saying, “I don’t want to talk TO you. I want to talk WITH you.” To most people, the difference in the choice of preposition may mean nothing, te me, it means dragging you over to the same side of the table. This mean it would stay as a respectful chat. I hope we can keep it that way. As a disabled vet, it would be great to see the implimentation of the “Land Warrior Program”. The medical aspects would have a trickle down impacts, could come to all of us. The problem I have is this, the money, even if were appropriated/ OMB approved, written into law signed by the President would not get to the actual program. The money would fall into a “slush fund”. POTUS is required to sign off on the actual release of the funds, not just signing the bill into law. It would be the same as signing the contract and signing the check. The really strange thing is I would be glad to be wrong!

“Grumpy Disabled Vet”

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[…] [Via docinthemachine] […]

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lowfatbrains.com » links for 2006-12-10 said in December 10th, 2006 at 3:17 pm

[…] Army Axing High-Tech Soldier of Tomorrow- MedTech Losses Predicted » docinthemachine DefenceTech reports today that the US Army has decided to axe it’s $500 Million (so far) Land Warrior Soldier of the Future program (tags: science software technology health darpa military weapons future biotechnology) […]

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[…] Army Axing High-Tech Soldier of Tomorrow- MedTech Losses Predicted » docinthemachine Army Axing High-Tech Soldier of Tomorrow- MedTech Losses Predicted […]

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Cell Phones news: said in December 12th, 2006 at 12:04 am

[…] [Via docinthemachine] […]

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Grand Rounds, Vol. 3 No. 12 is Up » docinthemachine said in December 12th, 2006 at 1:44 pm

[…]  Grand Rounds, Vol. 3 No. 12 - (and another great well rounded one) is up at Anxiety, Addiction and Depression Treatments  a really fascinating mental health site.  Once again the editor had to pick the best of the medical bloggers and was not able to include all posts.  They are well organized into very diverse categories.  I am happy we were picked again– Many people are content to have a working grasp of today’s medical technologies, but the docinthemachine has his eye to the future. In this excellent post he discusses how cuts in military research will impact new medical technologies currently in development. […]

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[…] I previously wrote about the government cutting the soldier of the future LandWarrior program.  The point of my post was the myriad next-generation medical developments destined to come from the program that would be lost in the military cutbacks.  The post was picked up widely including slashdot and grandrounds.  Many commenters were angry at the concept of spending hundreds of millions of dollars on military development to get medical byproducts rather than spending less money more efficiently directly on medical development.  The point of that post and this one is not to say war is great because it leads to medical advances.  Here I will review why and how breakthroughts come from the military and not from other avenues which is suprising (and upsetting) to many. […]

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Steven F. Palter, MD said in December 21st, 2006 at 12:29 am

Wow– so many people are angry that so much money is spent on the military rather than on pure medical research. They are missing the point of this post. My point is to review the facts of how far reaching military programs lead to far reaching medical breakthroughts. This is not a statement of support nor criticism just a review of the facts. To take this discussion to the next step here is a post about why the medical industry does not do what the military does for medicine (again not saying this is right just that it is the way it is).
http://docinthemachine.com/2006/12/21/darpamedtech/ 

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Louis J Dankovich said in December 21st, 2006 at 8:17 am

Actually, a large number of the technological advances that we as a society are used to were pioneered in military applications.

GPS, Celluar phone technlogy, Satelite Communications, and a large number of medical advances.

It is doubtful that military research is going to find the cure for aids or cancer. But that really is not the focus of the military. On the other hand, I would respectfully submit that the vast majority of the techniques used in Emergency Rooms every day are pioneered and refined based on military situations. For that matter, a lot of limb repair and replacement research finds its first use in such applications.

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Benjamin33 said in December 21st, 2006 at 1:50 pm

On the whole track of military budgets and R&D costs…
I would just like to point out to those ‘angry’ people saying we should spend money to fund med programs directly and not have the funding go to the military…
Keep in mind that research on weapons that kill is actually saving lives. Now before you start throwing those stones, let me explain. Virtually all industrialized nations with a military have R&D programs to make better more accurate weapons. From a soldiers perspective having a better weapon then your enemy increases your chance of survival in a fight. Therefore if we do not spend the money on development to keep ourselves in the lead, then a potential enemy will, thereby lowering the survivability of our soldiers.
This coupled with the fact that much military tech trickles down to the civilian med world, helps to further human survivability in general.
I think people need to put things into perspective. If a program is on the chopping block that is perceived to be expendable but in this case is not, perhapses it’s time to look at more creative ideas to save money, because this is the bottom line, no one wants to fit the bill for such a huge budget.
Finally as one who doesn’t just point out problems without solutions. Better organization/consolidation of resources is needed in our military, not killing programs. We no longer require bases throughout the world to support our allies. Bases in strategic locations around the world could be much more efficient and would handle the budget issue.

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DARPA Releases Strategic Plan 2007 » docinthemachine said in February 9th, 2007 at 10:54 pm

[…] DARPA (the defense advanced research projects agency) has released its 2007 strategic plan.  This magnum opus of military future tech neatly lays out the priorities and plans for this amazing agency that has led to so much medical innovation.  I will summarize the key points of the report in a series of posts and tie these in to the medical breakthroughs that may result.  For those in need of background you can read about the Army & DARPA’s future soldier Landwarrior program and its medtech offshoots here as well as why DARPA does medical research and development that industry won’t. […]

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Is Technology Good, Evil, or Neutral? » docinthemachine said in March 14th, 2007 at 10:34 pm

[…] I believe in tehnological neutrality.  While it seems that in some scenarios (such as weapons) technology is clearly morally charged, it is just that application of the technology that sets off our reaction.  There is no better example than the work of DARPA which I have written about.  While many lament the development of expensive military technology I see the benmeficial medical applications inherent in these projects.  While one person might see evil and death I can see good and life in the exact same technologies.  Read about the medical uses of military technology here, here, and here. […]

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Joe Yuna said in April 16th, 2007 at 1:04 pm

The real question begging to be answered is the OR assessments…with this technology how many more of the enemy can we kill compared to how many of us that they kill. It has always been the risk vv. the cost vv. the gain.

It is naive to believe that this program is tied to medical, although a spin-off is understood. The mdeical CLINs should be under their own program and funding is Congress really cared about saving the future soldier from death or maiming.

Low tech vv. high tech can be weighed only by the kill-ratio…and if we want a volunteer army at the levels we have now to fight in an assymetircal environment as the Middle East, then this program makes sense to a bean-counter.

But trying to minimize civilian casualties is a pipe-dream. WWII was won by making the civilian sector suffer for their politics and loyalties, not bombing just the Wehrmacht or Luftwaffe assets. The bottom-line is to kill this program if it has a high kill ratio in light of the low birth rates in the western world makes no sense at all. But to believe that that we can win in a moral war without gun fodder assets is even more naive. In the end, boots-on-the-ground is a more humane albeit higher risk to us than high tech air power or special weapon systems.

The lesson of Iraq is the same lesson of Korea or Vietnam. We were ill equipped for the manpower demands of these wars. And there was a vacuum of experienced leadership at the top ends of the enlisted or officer ranks. And no matter what material or technological edge we had over our opponents, the war was fought and lost by the ground warfare operations.

Religious or cultural bias older than our own can never be defeated by high tech…against large sacle armies in the field fighting the traditional european style wars, tech makes sense. In the Middle East, it does not. Me against my brother; my brother and I against the strange typifies what we are faced with today.

Our greatest strengths in previous situations has been leadership in the field; and not back in some secure video game center.

Think of this…the Iranian proxy is safe and secure while he threatens the Iraqi and American forces; yet we will not remove him from the equation, and continue to play on his and Iran’s terms. High or low tech cannot overcome bad political decisions. And to remove this individual from the geopolitical equation requires troops not more “laptops”. In either case we continue to lose soldiers. But we would lose less men and women in the field by changing the equation variables by attacking the root causual factors in this war…the leadership. I never understood why the “little” people always had to die while the “big” people lived on. We took and contained Sadir (sp) City once before……but failed to eliminate the source of the problem-the leadership.

Patroling with a net centric futuristic warrior makes no sense if the objective of the mission is cut the tail of the snake rather than cutting its head. And for all of our high tech, we are failing for lack of the basic grunt warrior with or without the equipment needed to fight or survive in a culture and religion hostile to our western civilization.

The soldiers need now the medical diagnostic equipment to save their lives in the field. The Robo Cop or Starship Troopers gear is a nice thought…we can leave for the time after we either win or extract ourselves from this low tech battlefield.

Better spend our money reclaiming the sold-off VOA and improving our propaganda machinery than gambling on giving a small number of grunts some high tech weapon systems that will kill no more of the enemy than we can kill now with the few number of hands available to feed into a meat grinder called Iraq.

A low cost solution to a low tech battlefield would be to use shotguns in close quarters. Let God sort out the innocent from the guilty for it makes little difference to a grunt holding his buddy’s guts in with his helmet or battle dressing whether the enemy was young, old, innocent or guilty…war is horrible and should be kept as such so men could not wage it in a clean manner…over and over and over again. We are trying to save their youth while killing our low numbered youth and future leaders off……where is the risk assessment of this to our nation’s future? And all of this discourse means nothing to the soldier in the field trying to make it to the next day, the next mission, the next hour, and the next minute.

There are no innocents in war…just the living and the dead. But are we killing the right people, or just shooting at what is shooting at us?

Since I am a OA proponent, and we have a low manned volunteer military I say we can the Buck Rodgers gear, and invest in the medical tools to save what is left of our undermanned, ill-equipped soldiers until we determine what our end-game is in Iraq or the Middle East as a whole. Spreading democracy and western morality is a function of our State Department, not our military. We cannot even get our local police force to help change a flat tire for our citizens in need, or contain the out-of-control gang killings in our inner cities. And yet we are attempting to change a culture’s paradigms thousands of years old…and who puts little value in human life as opposed to tribal or religious metrics. That rational smacks of low tech thinking.

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[…] If this goes through the fallout loss of future medical technology under development will be enormous. many do not realize the enormous amount of medical technology that trickles down from the military (such as the swallowable gut-cams … …more […]

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[…] If this goes through the fallout loss of future medical technology under development will be enormous. many do not realize the enormous amount of medical technology that trickles down from the military (such as the swallowable gut-cams … …more […]

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[…] If this goes through the fallout loss of future medical technology under development will be enormous. many do not realize the enormous amount of medical technology that trickles down from the military (such as the swallowable gut-cams … …more […]

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[…] If this goes through the fallout loss of future medical technology under development will be enormous. many do not realize the enormous amount of medical technology that trickles down from the military (such as the swallowable gut-cams … …more […]

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[…] If this goes through the fallout loss of future medical technology under development will be enormous. many do not realize the enormous amount of medical technology that trickles down from the military (such as the swallowable gut-cams … …more […]

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[…] If this goes through the fallout loss of future medical technology under development will be enormous. many do not realize the enormous amount of medical technology that trickles down from the military (such as the swallowable gut-cams … …more […]

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[…] If this goes through the fallout loss of future medical technology under development will be enormous. many do not realize the enormous amount of medical technology that trickles down from the military (such as the swallowable gut-cams … …more […]

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[…] If this goes through the fallout loss of future medical technology under development will be enormous. many do not realize the enormous amount of medical technology that trickles down from the military (such as the swallowable gut-cams … …more […]

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[…] If this goes through the fallout loss of future medical technology under development will be enormous. many do not realize the enormous amount of medical technology that trickles down from the military (such as the swallowable gut-cams … …more […]

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Clinical Electrodes said in June 8th, 2007 at 3:30 pm

I definitely do think that millitary medical research can be beneficial in a variety of ways, but I don’t support funding weapons advancement in the name of medicine.

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[…] DARPA (the defense advanced research projects agency) is the R&D arm of he US military for far-reaching future technology. What most people do not realize is how much revolutionary medical technology comes out of this agency’s military R&D programs. For those in need of background, you can read about the Army & DARPA’s future soldier Landwarrior program and its medtech offshoots as well as why DARPA does medical research and development that industry won’t. Fear of these future military technologies runs high with a push towards neural activation as a weapon, direct brain-computer interfaces, and drones. However, the new program has enormous potential for revolutionary medical progess as well. […]

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Joe B said in September 13th, 2007 at 7:18 pm

Hey I thought this article on medical technology was great. We have a bunch of other future and present battlefield at our website
Future Firepower. Stop by and check it out some time and let us know what you think.

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Peter P said in October 1st, 2007 at 4:17 pm

This is bullshit. As a soldier and a infintrymen Im really pissed. The land warrior syster was 16 pounds so Im not happy about hauling that thing around. When they also said the exsoskelton was cut from funding that got me. Every bound under fire with 85 pounds of gear on? It sucks.

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